Perseverance of the Saints Part 11: Can Apostates Be Restored?

[revised on 7/17/08]

Is Restoration Really Impossible?

After studying the warning passages in Hebrews the question naturally arises: can an apostate ever be restored again to salvation?  Is the repudiation of saving faith irrevocable and the condition of the apostate permanent?

In this series we have attempted to let exegesis guide our theology.  I would like for the doctrine of eternal security to be true for many reasons just as I would prefer to believe that there is no place of eternal fire waiting for all those who reject Christ.  However, I believe that hell is a terrifying reality and that genuine believers can fall away from the faith to their own eternal ruin because I find that careful exegesis force these truths upon us.  In dealing with the question of whether or not apostates can be restored, we must look beyond what we would most like to believe and concern ourselves only with what the word of God teaches.

We have found in Hebrews 6:4 that it is impossible for the apostate to be renewed again to repentance.  The Bible is clear that only through repentance can one be saved (Acts 2:38; 11:18).  Hebrews 10:26 tells us that there is “no sacrifice for sins” remaining for the apostate.  “The apostate has sins but no available sacrifice for his sins.  Having rejected the sacrifice made by Jesus Christ, there is no other sacrifice to which to turn.”  (F. Leroy Forlines, The Quest for Truth, pg. 281)

Some have focused on the part of the warning which states, “seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and exposed him to an open shame.”  Robert Picirilli notes that the “seeing” is provided by the translator as a transition showing cause and effect.  The literal meaning of the passage is “(they) re-crucifying to (or, for) themselves the Son of God and exposing (Him) to public shame.” (Grace, Faith, Free Will, pg. 222)  He later notes that some see in this passage the possibility of restoration from said apostasy.  He makes reference to Robert Shank’s suggestion that the passage should be understood as “It is impossible to renew them to repentance so long as they are crucifying…and publicly shaming Him.” (ibid. 223- emphasis mine).  Picirilli rightly points out that this view turns the warning into meaningless tautology:

Shank’s interpretation winds up saying that it is impossible to renew them to repentance so long as he persists in rejection- which is not much of a point since it is always impossible to bring anyone to repentance so long as he persists in rejection. (ibid. 224)

He then goes on to quote F.F. Bruce who calls this interpretation “a truism hardly worth putting into words.”  It makes far more sense to see the passage as speaking of the causal relationship between the act of apostasy and the result of that act (re-crucifying the Son of God and putting Him to open shame).

Apostasy and the Presumptuous sin of Numbers 15:30, 31

It is important to remember that the sin of apostasy described in Hebrews is an “eyes wide open” type of sin.  It is done with an attitude of arrogance and disbelief.  It is not a matter of doubting the truth of the gospel, but actively and deliberately repudiating that truth.  It is not an issue of struggling with sin and failing in that struggle, but fully and rebelliously surrendering to sin in a deliberate act of defiance towards God.  There is no way to accidentally slip into such an act and not realize it.  It is done deliberately and is an outright act of unbelief.

Forlines sees a connection between the sin of the apostate and the presumptuous sin that is described in Numbers 15:30, 31.  He writes:

I do not think there is any doubt that the writer of Hebrews meant to say that the ‘willful sin’ of Hebrews 10:26 was the same kind of sin as the presumptuous sin in Numbers 15:30, 31.  There was no sacrifice for the presumptuous sin.  There is an obvious connection between the words ‘There remaineth no more sacrifice for sins’ (verse 26) and the fact that there was no sacrifice for sins in the case of the presumptuous sins in Numbers 15:30, 31…Presumptuous sins were committed with a ‘high hand.’  They came from an attitude of arrogant, defiant, unbelief.  According to Numbers 15:30, 31, there was no sacrifice for presumptuous sins.  If, in fact, the sin of apostasy mentioned in Hebrews 6:4-6 and 10:26-29 is to be equated with the presumptuous sin of Numbers 15:30, 31, that should settle forever the question of whether apostasy is without remedy. (The Quest for Truth, pg. 282)

Forlines is careful to distinguish between the presumptuous sin and “sins of ignorance”:

The Old Testament makes a clear distinction between sins of ignorance and presumptuous sins.  Sins of ignorance (also called “unintentional sins”) were basically sins of weakness.  The person who committed such a sin had better desires, but these desires were defeated.  The one committing such a sin was to offer a sacrifice (Num. 15:27-29)…Once we see the distinction between presumptuous sins and sins of ignorance in the Old Testament, it is clear that this distinction comes over in the New Testament.  It is evident that when Jesus said, ‘Father forgive them; for they know not what they do’ (Luke 23:34), He was considering the sins of those who crucified Him to be in the category of sins of ignorance.  In Acts 3:17, Peter said that the Jews had crucified Jesus through ignorance.  For that reason, they could be forgiven (Acts 3:19).  In describing himself before his conversion, Paul said, ‘Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious.’  In explaining how it was that he could be forgiven, he said, ‘But I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief’ (1 Tim. 1:13).  It is clear that Paul was placing his sins of blasphemy and his persecution of the church in the category of sins of ignorance.  It was for that reason that they could be forgiven. (ibid. 282, 283)

And in the case of Peter he writes:

I believe that if Paul’s persecution of the church could be considered a sin of ignorance that surely Peter’s denial of Christ on the night of the betrayal of Christ should be considered a sin of ignorance (or weakness).  If that be true, the case of Peter would have no bearing on the question of whether there is or is not a remedy for apostasy. (ibid. 283)

We will return to the case of Peter shortly.  Forlines finds further evidence for the connection between presumptuous sins and apostasy in the description of the apostate teachers of 2 Peter 2:

Verse 10 of 2 Peter 2 sheds more light on the subject.  In this verse Peter describes these apostates teachers as tolmetes.  The KJV translates tolmetesas “presumptuous.”  The NASB renders it as “daring.”  The NIV translates it as “arrogant.”  Tolmetesoccurs only here in the New Testament.  Concerning its use here, J.A. Moyter explains, ‘The single occurrence of the noun (tolmetes) is clearly in the bad sense…, the arrogant man of 2 Peter 2:10 who brooks no restriction on self-will and recognizes no authority to which he will be answerable.’

It is clear that Peter is considering these false teachers to be guilty of the presumptuous sin of Numbers 15:30, 31.  The arrogant, defiance of these apostates gives a finality to their action.  Before they were saved they did not have this finality about their lost condition.  The presumptuous, daring, arrogant decision with which they committed apostasy means that it was done with finality.  This puts them in worse condition then they were before they were saved. (ibid. 284)

Practical Implications

I believe that Forlines has correctly identified apostasy as described in Hebrews 6 and 10 with the unforgivable presumptuous sin of Num.15:30, 31 (though in the OT presumptuous sins might be any sin that is done in arrogant rebellion, whereas in Hebrews such a “sin” would pertain only to outright rejection of saving faith).  It would also be correct then to identify apostasy with the unpardonable sin described by Jesus in the Gospels. The important Biblical distinction between presumptuous sin and sins of ignorance will help us better understand what apostasy entails and what it does not entail:

I believe that we can rest assured that the person who comes to talk to us about his or her fears of having committed the unpardonable sin does not fit the description of the people described in 2 Peter 2:20, 21; Hebrews 6:4-6; and 10:26-29.  If there is concern to be restored to a right relationship with God, such a person has not committed apostasy. (ibid.)

It seems certain that the “sin unto death” described by John in 1 John 5:16-17 is the unforgivable sin of apostasy as described in Hebrews 6 and 10.  This would suggest that one can, in certain situations, know that someone is an apostate without any hope of renewal since John instructs us not to pray for such types.  There is no need to pray for those who have sinned in such a way since there is no possibility for renewal.  Our prayers would therefore be a waste of time and would be better served towards those who have not yet committed apostasy.  This does not, however, mean that we can always tell when someone has committed irrevocable apostasy.  It only means that there are cases in which the apostasy could be obvious enough that we should not waste time praying for that person.  We need, however, to be careful not to make rash judgments concerning those who may seem to have committed apostasy.  Forlines gives us some good practical advice along these lines:

The people in the U.S. who have come to me with their fears have not said that, in their past, they had made a decision to denounce their faith in Christ.  The situation in Russia presented a different problem.  When I spoke on this subject there, some real concerns were expressed.  In a discussion period, someone said that he had known someone who under persecution had renounced his faith in Christ.  Later on the person had repented.

In order to evaluate a case like that we need to keep I mind the distinction between presumptuous sins and sins of ignorance.  It is not simply what a person does or says that determines the case.  Attitude is a decisive factor.  In explaining how he was able to get forgiveness for persecuting the church, Paul is certainly implying that if he had done what he had done “presumptuously,” there would have been no forgiveness.

We cannot imagine the suffering inflicted, in times past, upon some people in Russia [not to mention the early Christians] to get them to deny their faith.  Death was merciful in light of the severe torture to which some were subjected.  I think we should have to say that it was certainly possible for the lips to utter the words of a denial of faith that did not represent an arrogant, defiant, unbelief toward God.  If that be the case, the words of denial that the person uttered would not be equivalent to apostasy or shipwreck of faith.  It appears that there were some who spoke words of denial that did not in fact commit apostasy.  But I do not think that we can explain all cases that way…based on my experience in talking with people, I would caution preachers about jumping too quickly to the conclusion that the person who talks with them about having committed apostasy has, indeed done so.  I think it would be better to take it as a plea for help. (ibid. 284, 285)

Is There Another Type of Apostasy?

But is there perhaps a type of apostasy that can be remedied; an apostasy that does not constitute an outright repudiation of the faith from the heart?  There are several passages which speak plainly of the fact that those who live in sin will reap death and have no inheritance in the Kingdom of God (Rom. 8:12-13; Eph. 5:-7; 1 Cor. 6:9-10; Gal. 5:19-21; 6:7-8).  These warnings are directed toward believers.  Is it possible that one can fall into a pattern of sin and rebellion without fully repudiating the Lord in their heart?

I think that the evidence is clear that believers are warned against living in sin with the consequence of such lifestyles being spiritual death and being cut off from God’s Kingdom.  Would such a lifestyle only be possible after one finally apostatizes from the faith?  The writer of Hebrews again and again warns his readers of the deceitfulness and terrible hardening affects of continued sin.  This hardening, if left unchecked, will ultimately lead to that dreadful act of apostasy from which there is no possibility of restoration.

The case of Peter may serve as an example.  We have determined that Peter did not commit apostasy as described in Hebrews, but it seems clear that Peter did commit some form of apostasy since Jesus speaks of when he shall be again “converted” or “turned back.” (Luke 22:31, 32).  There was a sense, then, in which Peter turned from the Lord.  Why else should he need to be converted again?

Perhaps there is an apostasy from which one can be restored.  But it may be that these passages are warning against a life characterized by sin because such a life will soon lead to apostasy.  So when Paul speaks of not inheriting the Kingdom of God, he is speaking of what will happen if sinful living persists to the point of apostasy.  One who sows to please the flesh will surely reap spiritual death and eternal destruction, but only if one does not repent. Therefore, the dreadful consequence looks ahead to what will inevitably transpire if sin is not dealt with.  Sin is extremely dangerous because if one persists in it and does not fight against it, apostasy and spiritual death lie just around the corner.

James reminds his Christian readers [brothers] that, “if one should wander from the truth and someone bring him back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.” (James 5:19-20)  What does James mean here?  Is he suggesting that one who wanders away from the truth can experience a spiritual death and yet be restored again?  Or is he merely saying that the wandering saint is being rescued from the spiritual death that surely awaits him if he persists in sin and continues to wander to the point of outright apostasy?  Either interpretation seems possible.

And what of 1 John 2:11, 15?  John plainly tells us that anyone who hates his brother is in darkness and does not possess eternal life.  Is it impossible then for a Christian to ever hate?  Such a conclusion seems very unlikely.  Don’t these passages then tell us that spiritual death results when a believer hates his brother? But again, John may only be speaking of persistence in hate which is characteristic of unbelief.   While a Christian may hate his brother, he will not persist in that hatred unto spiritual death.  Rather, he will yield to the conviction of the Holy Spirit, confess his sin and be cleansed from all unrighteousness.  Persistence in hatred would then indicate that one has become an unbeliever.

In Romans 11:23 we are told that the unbelieving Jews (branches) may yet be grafted in again if they do not persist in unbelief.  Many have concluded from this that apostasy can be remedied.  However, it may be that these Jews would fall into the same category as Paul before his conversion.  They had been broken off due to their rejection of the Christ but that rejection may be the result of ignorance which would therefore make restoration possible.  However, Paul does not hold out hope for those Gentile believers who have been grafted in by faith in Jesus Christ.  He tells them that they should not be arrogant, but afraid because if they fail to continue in God’s grace they too will be broken off.  Paul says nothing of the possibility of their being grafted in again.  Perhaps this is because for them being broken off could only result from outright apostasy from which there is no possibility of restoration.

What then of Peter’s second “conversion?” His turning back may simply be a description of his repentance.  If what we have concluded about the nature of apostasy is true, then this would further confirm that Peter’s denials did not constitute apostasy.  If he had committed apostasy as described in Hebrews 6 and 10, it would have been impossible for him to “turn back.”

But what about those who have gradually stopped living according to their faith without outright repudiation of that faith?  Is it still possible to become an apostate of sorts without repudiating the faith in quite the same prideful way as described in Hebrews 6 and 10?  Some of the passages above could fit comfortably with such a concept and at least two more passages come to mind that might make room for such an apostasy:

Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves!  Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you- unless indeed you failed the test? (1 Cor. 13:5)

Paul’s words seem to suggest that one could abandon saving faith without being fully aware of it.  For this reason, we need to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith.  It seems possible then that a believer can slowly slip away from the faith while clinging to the false hope that he or she is still saved.  In other words, a believer may begin to cling to the world and indulge the sinful nature more and more until his faith is no longer characterized by true trust and surrender to Christ as Lord and Savior.  For this reason, we are admonished to examine ourselves and be sure that we are living in faith.  If our lives do not reflect the walk of faith, then we have no grounds for presuming to be in saving relationship with Christ (Rom. 8:12-14).  We cannot assume that Christ’s grace continues for those who desire to live for themselves, even while claiming to believe on Christ (Titus 2:11-14).  To be in the faith means more than just head belief.  It is a faith that affects our lives and attitudes.  It is dangerous business to assume that the grace of God allows for us to live any way we want as long as we continue to give lip service to the Lord:

They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed. (Titus 1:16)

If we examine ourselves and find that our profession of faith is nothing more than mere profession, then we have “failed the test” and as a result, Christ is not in us.  If Christ is not in us then we are surely lost (Rom. 8:9).  Is there any hope of restoration from such an abandonment of saving faith?  Paul does not explicitly affirm the possibility of restoration, but his words seem to suggest the possibility.  There is reason to examine ourselves.   The reason would seem to be for the purpose of returning to the faith and re-committing ourselves fully to the Lord.

So perhaps this would constitute an apostasy that can yet be remedied.  This would then not be the same as the apostasy described in Hebrews 6 and 10 which seems to be characterized by an attitude of arrogance and deliberate unbelief.  In either case we need to guard ourselves against complacency in our walk with the Lord.  If we begin to take God’s grace for granted and make room for sin and rebellion in our lives, there is no guarantee that we will not continue down that path to our own destruction, and even to a point of making restoration impossible.  We should heed well the words of the inspired apostle:

Grace and knowledge be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus Christ our Lord; seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence…Now for this reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.  For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.  For he who lacks these qualities is blind or shortsighted, having forgotten his purification form his former sins.  Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things you will never stumble; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you. (2 Peter 1:2-11-emphasis mine).

There are several things to note in this passage.  First, God gives us the power we need to persevere in saving faith.  It is not something we can do of our own strength.  Second, the walk of faith should not be stagnant.  It should be a walk of continual growth and maturity.  If we are not maturing in our faith then we are putting ourselves at risk of falling away from that faith.  Third, Peter makes it clear that those who do not persevere and mature in their faith were truly forgiven of their past sins though they have forgotten the significance of their initial cleansing.  Therefore, Peter is not just speaking of false professors who had never experienced saving faith.  Fourth, only by continuing in the maturity of faith does one make his calling and election sure, avoid stumbling [falling] and gain the certainty of entering the eternal kingdom of Christ.

It may be wise then to make a distinction between apostasy and irrevocable apostasy based on these passages.  There is certainly an apostasy that cannot be remedied if our exegesis of the Hebrews warning passages is correct.  However, it also seems that there may be a lesser apostasy.  This apostasy is not lesser because spiritual death does not result, but because there may still be hope of restoration through repentance and re-commitment to Christ in saving faith.

Conclusion:  The evidence seems clear that apostasy as described in Hebrews 6 and 10 is a deliberate act of rebellious unbelief.  It is done with all the heart in an attitude of arrogance and defiance.  Occasional doubts or struggles with sin do not constitute such apostasy.  Rather, it is the act of willfully walking away from Christ and completely rejecting the truth of the gospel once embraced.  This apostasy is without remedy since “it is impossible to renew them again to repentance.”

There are passages that seem to suggest that there is a type of apostasy from which one may yet be restored.  However, some of these passages may also be understood as warnings against the sinful lifestyles that will inevitably result in apostasy if those sins are not dealt with through confession and repentance.  They may be emphasizing the dangers of sin by looking ahead to the most dreadful of consequences if that sin is persistently ignored and surrendered to.  Still, there are a few passages that may yet describe an apostasy from which one may be restored again to faith and salvation.  This apostasy could be described as no longer living according to the faith one professes (1 Cor. 13:5; Titus 1:16).  It would, for this reason, fall short of the outright rebellious abandonment of faith described in Hebrews 6 and 10.

Sin can lead to apostasy by hardening the heart to the point of unbelief.  That is why sin is such a dangerous thing and should never be trivialized in the life of the believer.  If believers persist in sinful living and refuse to repent, irrevocable apostasy may be just around the corner.  This “sinning” could be the unrepentant indulgence of the flesh, or the gradual tolerance of false teaching.  There is still hope of restoration and repentance prior to the decisive act of willful unbelief.  We can therefore be sure that if one desires to repent and be restored to right relationship with the Lord that irrevocable apostasy has not yet occurred.

While there will be cases of outright apostasy that we can observe and conclude with certainty that apostasy has occurred, there are other times where it will not be so easy to determine whether irrevocable apostasy has taken place.  We should hold out hope for the one who appears to have committed such apostasy as long as some doubt remains concerning the genuineness of the act.

14 Responses

  1. Good post Ben, and challenging to me as someone who has traditionally held more of the Shank view.

    I clearly understand the definition of Presumptuous/Defiant sins, and how one can’t (or won’t) turn from those types of sins. However, it seems like the words used to describe “repentable sins” are inadequate. Ignorance and weakness are really two different things. This is not a criticism of your argument at all, I’m just saying that none of the label words clearly captures the idea of exactly what defines this type of sin. Maybe that’s just because this category manifests itself in many different ways.

    For example in Peter’s case what he did could be called weakness, but it wasn’t ignorant. He did what he did deliberately, and after declaring Jesus was the Christ. He did what he did because he was scared. The same is true with your Russian examples.

    A different situation comes up with David and Bathsheeba. David knew very well what he was doing, one doesn’t accidentally commit adultery. And David wasn’t scared, he was selfish. But his sin was a type of weakness too – weakness of the flesh.

    On a separate issue….You quote Forlines who argues that a person who has fears can be assured that he has not committed the “unpardonable sin” because the individual’s concern indicates a desires to renew his relationship with God. This makes me wonder about the situation with King Saul. In his case he committed sins that were deliberate, but also might be called weakness. He also demonstrated both fear and a desire to renew his relationship with God. Yet God removed him from the throne, and presumably he was lost. In Saul’s case it seems that he wanted to repent, but it was still too late.

    Unrelated Side note: it looks like the auto generated mp3 at the bottom defends the Calvinist view of losing salvation. ;) didn’t listen to it, but assume that’s the case looking at the blogroll at http://christiantheology.wordpress.com/.

  2. Hey Kevin,

    I don’t like “sins of ignorance” either. I don’t think it conveys the meaning very well and can easily be misunderstood. They are not “oops” sins in the sense that we really had not intentions of doing them. They are sins that are not done with a Spirit of absolute unbelief. I think Forlines comes very close to capturing the nature of sins of ignorance when he states that “The person who committed such a sin had better desires, but these desires were defeated.” But maybe this definition is not always adequate.

    David’s case is a difficult one. He was definitely acting deliberately. From the story we find that David got himself into trouble by not being where he belonged at the time; “David stayed at Jerusalem” while he should have been out to battle with his men (2 Samuel 11:1). That was David’s first mistake and led to his encounter with Bathsheba. He was neglecting his duty which demonstrates to me that David’s spirit was probably not quite right.

    The Bible doesn’t tell us what was going on inside David, but he was definitely having some sort of spiritual struggle. He was in a state of spiritual weakness and in that state he sinned greatly, compounded that sin, and tried to cover it up. He was certainly in the process of hardening his heart to the point of no return. No doubt the Spirit had convicted him numerous times and yet he hardened his heart to the Spirit’s voice. It took the rebuke of a prophet to get David to snap out of his self-induced spiritual stupor. It may be that Nathan’s rebuke was David’s last chance to respond. If he had ignored the prophet and continued in his defiance he may have reached the point where God could no longer reach him.

    In either case, David did repent, which would indicate that he had not yet reached the point of no return. Though he hid his sin and resisted the Spirit, there was something inside of him that longed for restoration, but his desire to indulge in sin overcame it. Thankfully, Nathan’s rebuke came before David’s right desires were completely smothered by sin and rebellion.

    David, then, would serve as an example of one who seemed to have committed apostasy in some ways but had not yet done so. That is why we need to exercise extreme caution in trying to diagnose actual instances of apostasy.

    I personally do not see any evidence of genuine repentance in Saul. Saul’s “repentance” seemed to be only a desire to maintain the kingdom and look good in front of his people. It does not seem to have been a repentance that was concerned with restoring a right relationship with the Lord (1 Samuel 15:30). Saul had demonstrated a pattern of disobedience as king of Israel (1 Samuel 13:8-13). So Saul’s rebellion began early and it is not clear that he ever truly repented for his acts of disobedience. It seems that Saul may be a far clearer case of apostasy based on continued disobedience and refusal to genuinely repent of his actions.

    Great thoughts. Not sure if that helps, but I do think that David, Saul, and Peter can all fit within the framework of sins of weakness vs. the sin of outright apostasy.

    God Bless,
    Ben

  3. Ben,

    Thanks again for your posts. I know it takes a lot of time to compile, and yours are always very well written. My question/comment to you is this – is it possible for someone who professes to be a Christian to be lost? Perhaps I misunderstand the point of your post, but it seems to imply that sin leads to hardness of heart, and left unchecked a hard heart leads to a renouncement of Christ, and thereby salvation. I haven’t thought much along those lines, but in studying along with you, aren’t we breaking our rule of letting scriptural exegesis define our theology?

    For instance, when dealing with 1st Corinthians 6:9-10, you said:

    “Perhaps there is an apostasy from which one can be restored. But it may be that these passages are warning against a life characterized by sin because such a life will soon lead to apostasy. So when Paul speaks of not inheriting the Kingdom of God, he is speaking of what will happen if sinful living persists to the point of apostasy.”

    It doesn’t appear to me that he is concerned about some possible future state of the Corinthians, rather, Paul was deeply concerned about their immediate spiritual state. People who continued to sin in their attitude and manner in taking the Lord’s Supper were said to be “sick or asleep”. I don’t see from 1st Corinthians 11 where they were full blown apostates.

    In looking at that 1st Corinthians 6 passage, Paul is reprimanding them for their un-Christlike attitude in taking one another to court. They should choose to be defrauded themselves before even trying to take things from others, especially brethren. He continues that line of chastisement by reminding them that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s kingdom. Notice here he names not one group of people (apostates) but groups of people – each characterized by one major sin. Those sins are what separate us from God- a life characterized by wickedness and parts of the heart unchanged by the gospel. The rich young ruler could follow most of the Law, but when he failed to love God more than he loved his possessions, we know his fate. He failed to follow the “Greatest commandment”, Loving the LORD your God with all your heart…

    Was he an apostate? He seemed very sincere in his service up to that point. Was all of his life given over to God? No. It doesn’t take full apostasy to be lost.

    An integral part of becoming a Christian is crucifying the flesh and its sinful desires. This involves, but is not limited to, repentance of existing sins and mindsets that are “earthly”, lest we find ourselves walking as “enemies of the cross of Christ”. Many Christians are content to give up several things for Christ, but not all. Most, but not everything. Those who try to cling to adultery and the cross at the same time will not be saved. Those who cling to alcohol and the cross will face the same fate. I know too many Christians who say “God is my best friend”, yet their daily lives are filled with earthly desires and there is no discipline or spirituality in sight.

    Matthew 7 also addresses people who still claim to follow Jesus, but ignore obedience to his teaching. Will the only people lost on judgment day be those who have renounced the name of the Christ? I think that is not the case, if Matthew 7:22-23. Many will call Him Lord, and have some level of allegiance to Him, but overall their wicked lifestyle denied Him.

    While I will continue to read over your post several times, I think we should be careful about reading into other texts our assumptions about how to make one passage fit. I know you aren’t trying to do that, but it seems we are skewing some other clear concepts.

    From my understanding, sin separates us from God, not just the eventual denouncement of our faith.

    Thanks again for the dialogue, and I look forward to your response!

  4. Steven,

    Thanks for the thoughtful comments. I think apostasy as described in Hebrews is without remedy. I think 2 Pet. 2:20 and John 15 are probably describing the same event. I am still open to the idea that unrepentant sin causes spiritual death even though outright apostasy has not yet occurred, but that position is not without problems.

    It would suggest that every time we sin we are cut off from Christ (though some would say only certain sins would cause this). This would mean that a Christian essentially forfeits eternal life every time they sin until they repent. If we say that one does not spiritually die right away, but eventually if repentance doesn’t follow, then we need to wonder how long one can go without repenting before spiritual death results.

    This does seem to undermine salvation by faith. It also makes grace seem quite ungracious since God immediately cuts us off from Christ whenever we sin (and I see no Biblical evidence that one who is cut off from Christ after putting saving faith in Him can be grafted in again.

    Maybe this is not what you are suggesting. I do believe that there are those who claim to be believers who are not. Many believe they are Christians who have never really come to saving faith in Him.

    Those sins are what separate us from God- a life characterized by wickedness and parts of the heart unchanged by the gospel.

    Again, how often must we sin and how long can we go without repenting before our lives are considered “characterized” by wickedness? There are very difficult distinctions to be made and I think we need to very careful since there is an area of subjectivity here.

    For now, the safest course of action, in my mind, is to affirm that salvation is by faith and is only finally lost through unbelief. The walk of faith includes confession and repentance when we sin, and discipline from the Lord when we are straying from Him. It is important to note that when we are experiencing the discipline of God for our sins, we are still His children and “accepted” by God (Hebrews 12:5-7). For this reason I find it very hard to accept a doctrine that would suggest that salvation is lost immediately when we sin, or that one cannot be resistant to God’s spirit to the point of needing discipline and still remain a child of God.

    Again, maybe I am misunderstanding your comments. I am anxious to hear what else you have to say about this.

    God Bless,
    Ben

  5. Ben,

    Thanks for the remarks. I must confess that I don’t have all the answers, but the Word surely has the solutions to all of our questions. Let’s dig in :)

    Amos 5:12-15

    “For I know your transgressions are many, and your sins are great, you who distress the righteous and accept bribes and turn aside the poor at the gate. Therefore at such a time the prudent person keeps silent, for it is an evil time. Seek good and not evil, that you may live; and thus may the LORD God of hosts be with you, Just as you have said! Hate evil, love good, and establish justice in the gate! Perhaps the LORD God of hosts may be gracious to the remnant of Joseph.”

    Also, from Ezekiel 18:21-23; 26

    “But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die. All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live. Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord GOD, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?”

    “When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and dies because of it, for his iniquity which he has committed he will die.”

    First off, in looking at those passages, I think its important that we establish that God wants everyone to be saved. He has no pleasure in the death of anyone, and it is His desire that people shape up their lives and follow His lead. God is not looking for ways to strike His covenant people down right and left, rather, He is gracious to all, as the prophet Jonah accurately noted.

    These passages also bear relevance to our discussion in that they show what separates people from God, and how God views the remedy for the current separation. In both cases God is going to punish people for their transgressions, iniquities, lack of observing His statues, and general unfaithfulness. It is not that they are no longer his covenant people in Amos, on the contrary, God shows what a shame it was that their unrighteousness resembled that of the nations around them, in spite of His relationship to them (chapters 1 and 2). Do not our sins, when left unchecked, rise up before God as did the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah? (Genesis 18:20-21) Will not the Judge of all the earth do right, by removing our candlestick when we refuse to repent, and continue a life of immorality? (Revelation 2:21-23) God is He who searches the mind and heart, and will give everyone according to their deeds. He is just in doing so.

    “For three transgressions of Judah and for four, I will not revoke its punishment, because they rejected the law of the LORD, and have not kept His statutes…”

    In both texts (and in the whole book of Amos) the people are condemned for their conduct, their lifestyle. Is there a remedy for their horrible condition?

    God tells them to seek Him so that they will live. This seeking is represented in the change of their lifestyle of unrighteousness. “Let justice roll down like waters, and righteousness like an everflowing stream.” Even though their condition was condemnable, it was not without hope. They continued to offer sacrifices and worship to the LORD, yet with a life full of unrighteousness, their worship and service was meaningless. They looked forward to the Day of the LORD, but they would be surprised when it came (Amos 4:18). Yet in spite of all of that, there was still hope to be found in repentance – in a recognizable change; a return to spirituality.

    Now to your comments.

    “Again, how often must we sin and how long can we go without repenting before our lives are considered “characterized” by wickedness? There are very difficult distinctions to be made and I think we need to very careful since there is an area of subjectivity here.”

    Truly a subjective question. I can’t tell you the exact moment that God condemns someone to hell, but i CAN tell you that sin will be the cause of it. What makes me an adulterer? I’d think my wife would figure once would be enough for her. Should I tell her it takes me years of adultery before God views me as such? I know you wouldn’t feel comfortable with that either. Cain was a murderer after the first time. The first sin sent Jesus to the cross, and everywhere in the scripture it is spoken out against. How are we who are dead to sin going to live any longer in it?

    “For now, the safest course of action, in my mind, is to affirm that salvation is by faith and is only finally lost through unbelief.”

    If by unbelief you mean that they don’t believe God will punish sin, then ok. If by unbelief you mean they never take God seriously and thereby never really change, ok. But if you mean unbelief as in they no longer believe God raised Jesus from the dead, or that Jesus was the Christ, then I disagree. I can not tell you when God has had enough of someone’s sin, but every time I see someone in error, is it not right to say “Go, and sin no more.”?

    Sorry if I’m rambling!

    -steven

  6. Ben. This is an excellent post. While it is clear in the context of your article, I think you should make it more obvious at the beginning that the assumption is that people can fall away from faith. I think they can as do you.

    I have asked similar questions as I know of people in this position. And it may not even be that they deny the truth of Christianity, rather that they find the life hard and have said they are no longer going to live for God and instead live their life how they choose. And while one may not know the state of everyone’s heart, I wonder whether these choices can be made in terms of rejecting God rather than disbelieving doctrine.

    Going on to your second situation where ongoing sin and refusal to repent can led someone into a position where they choose apostasy and will no longer choose Christ, I think this is a viable position to take from Scripture. Admonition to take hold of faith, to secure one’s faith, to not give up the race, all fit with this position. It is not that God is insecure in anyway, rather that we have to persevere. Things outside of us cannot separate us from God but if we reject him then we separate ourselves. That is why sin is so dangerous. Not just because of its negative effect on us and others in terms of natural consequences or punishment, but because followed thru it will lead to death.

    A useful verse that relates to this issue is Proverbs 29:1

    He who is often reproved, yet stiffens his neck,/
    will suddenly be broken beyond healing.

  7. Hey guys,

    Great thoughts. I think I may have changed my position somewhat as a result of some comments here, a conversation I have had with another Arminian via e-mail, and a few more Scriptures that have come to mind.

    I am leaving for a weekend work event later today and will not be back till Monday. I will try to elaborate and interact with these comments then.

    God Bless,
    Ben

  8. Hello Ben,

    Hello Ben,

    I was at a seminary bookstore this weekend, and was looking at a book called: “Four Views on the Warning passages in Hebrews” edited by Herbert Bateman (isbn – 0825421322). Are you familiar with this book? It looked very good, unfortunately I had a bunch of other books that I was picking up that day. If you are familiar with it, what did you think of it?

    Robert

  9. Robert,

    I have not read it but hear it is very good. It is on my wish list but I have not had the money to buy books in a long time, and it seems that it will be quite a while before I will again. If you do buy it and read it, let me know what you think.

    God Bless,
    Ben

  10. Here is an interesting quote I just ran across today concerning the very early Christian belief that hardheartedness leads to apostasy from faith and salvation (though it is not the main point of the quote):

    “Therefore, even in the New Testament, the apostles are found granting certain precepts in consideration of human infirmity [after quoting portions of 1 Cor. 7:1-9, 25] They did this because of the incontinence of some, lest such persons, having grown hardhearted, and despairing altogether of their salvation, might become apostates from God. Therefore, it should not be wondered at that also in the Old Covenant the same God permitted similar indulgences for the benefit of His people.”

    Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.480, quoted by David Bercot in A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs, pg. 472-emphasis mine.

  11. Ben, I enjoyed this post and will be sending it out to others. I do not buy into the hypothesis theory on Hebrews 6.4, nor do I believe that one can ‘high-handedly’ rebel against God and seek forgiveness. Thanks for the great perspective on this issue.

  12. Ben,
    A thorough essay revealing keen insight, thank you. A couple of thoughts come to mind that may be of interest to you (or not).

    As for the concept of irretrievable apostacy, what do you think about the depth of spiritual life mentioned in Hebrews 6? It sounds to me that the apostate who has no more to look for from Christ is the one who turned away from all Christ had to show. As you said in the post, not from ignorance (or inexperience), but with eyes wide open and a history of incredible experience. If such a one turns from all that Christ has offered and that the apostate has experienced, what is left to sweeten the pot to effect his return? Another spike through the body, a few more lashes on the back? If he’s turned his nose up at the best Christ has to offer, then nothing remains for Christ to offer.

    I think, incidentally, that is the same principle which applies to the fallen angels, and which damned them irredemiably. They turned in full view of God, and so what hope is there in God for them?

    The principle is in play for the Pharisees, Sadduccees and priests in regard to the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit as well, but perhaps to a lesser degree. One cannot accidentally blaspheme the Holy Spirit, he does so with knowledge and intent (John 3:2). When one attributes to the devil what he knows in his heart is from God, he blasphemes the Holy Spirit.

    Ignorance is not bliss, but at least it leaves room for improvement! I think there is always hope for one who turned from Christ while still substantially ignorant or infantile. I think you do see 2 Corinthians 13:5 accurately as an invitation to get right rather than a dismissal for apostacy.

    Your consideration of the dangers of sin to the saved was just excellent. I didn’t notice a citation of 1 Tim 1:19, though (did I miss it?). I’ve always taught that sin is like a torpedo to the ship of faith. Take enough hits without diligent repair and that ship is bound to sink.

  13. slw,

    I think that your comments regarding the level of experience with God and irrevocable apostasy are dead on and strongly supported by the context of those warnings (Heb. 6:4-5; 10:26).

    I did not reference 1 Tim. 1:19 but it is likely dealing with the same thing as you suggest. It does seem like the use of “shipwreck” to describe the ruin of one’s faith would denote total loss and probably imply that there is no hope of restoration.

    God Bless,
    Ben

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