Another Calvinist Who Isn’t Afraid to Tell it Like it Is

In my previous post I drew attention to a person who called Jesus the Calvinist Messiah.  As it turned out, this person was really just making fun of the way that some Calvinists tend towards elitist attitudes and equate their system of theology with the gospel itself.

But here is a guy who is quite for real.  In the following post he essentially equates anyone who believes that God has endowed His creatures with a measure of free will with demon possessed swine:

The End of Two-Thousand Arminians

That’s right, according to this guy if you do not hold to strict Calvinistic determinism then you are no better than a demon possessed pig!  Thankfully, most Calvinists would never say (and hopefully never think) such things.  Most Calvinists would consider this guy a hyper-Calvinist.  Unfortunately, it seems that more and more Calvinists (especially on the internet) are moving towards this sort of elitist and militant attitude towards all those who disagree with them.  I can’t count the times that Calvinists I have discussed my differences with have essentially questioned my salvation because I rejected their strange definition of sovereignty (exhaustive determinism).  Hopefully, more and more Calvinists will take a stand against such ungodly attitudes.  I fear that if they do not they will eventually be swept up in this same sort of thinking. 

Maybe this will eventually lead to the end of the Calvinist “resurgence”.  It has been said that Calvinist resurgences are almost always plagued with a move towards hyper-Calvinism that eventually kills the movement.  Could it be because hyper-Calvinism is the logical and consistent conclusion of exhaustive determinism?  I think so, but I am glad that so many Calvinists are willing to live with inconsistencies rather than pursue that route.  However, it seems that more and more Calvinists, in an effort to be consistent, are tending towards hyper-Calvinism.  If this leads to the demise of the movement, I can’t say that I will be overly disappointed (as much as I like being called a demon possessed pig and all).

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21 Responses

  1. I have found that the more I spend time with God in prayer and in His word, the more my will becomes His will. My will can only bend as God empowers me. I pray that my will become transformed to God’s purposes.

  2. I am absolutely amazed that someone could possess such an elitist attitude. People who make caricatures of God and/or other people grieve me.

  3. Marvin,

    You are a tough person to figure out. I’ll be gracious and leave it at that.

    God Bless,
    Ben

  4. “Demon possessed swine.” Sounds like the kind of insane parallel Thomas Twitchell would draw. But the poster there Testallthings/JesusBoyChris isn’t the author, the one who wrote the sermon was pastor Tommy Robbins. You can find the original at SermonAudio.

    It appears the reformed resurgence is beginning to collapse in on itself.

  5. Sounds like the kind of insane parallel Thomas Twitchell would draw.

    Funny you would call it insane, since Tommy Robbins calls Arminianism insanity in the post (so we are insane demon possessed pigs!).

    It appears the reformed resurgence is beginning to collapse in on itself.

    One can only hope.

  6. Ben and JC,

    Is it possible that this guy and his blog are not real? The stuff is so over the top, that it leads me to question whether it it real. Is it possible this is a calvinist just playing with people intentionallly trying to be outrageous, but not really holding the beliefs being presented?

    Robert

  7. Robert, your suspicion of foul play is quite understandable; I could hardly believe it myself. You might recognize the name of the guy who put the Robbins’ words up on SermonAudio, it was apparently Don Fortner, a crazed Calvinist militant who I’m pretty sure is not kidding.

    Robbins’ church can be found at http://www.fairmontgracechurch.net. Notice that his links tie him to Fortner’s group.

  8. Thanks for your grace, Ben….apparently Jesus’ grace is insufficient.

  9. Marvin,

    You wrote,

    Thanks for your grace, Ben….apparently Jesus’ grace is insufficient.

    Like I said, you are a tough guy to figure out. I don’t know what to make of this response. Is it a joke? Is it a jab? Are you suggesting that because God’s grace is sufficient, then we have no need to be gracious towards one another?

    BTW, would you care to explian why you posted in other threads and at other blogs while attaching my site’s URL to your name so that people wrongly thought you were me, and that my site was your site?

    God Bless,
    Ben

  10. Ben,

    I want to apologize for any confusion or grief that was caused by posting your URL to those other sites. I was, at the time, new to the blogosphere, and was thus unaware that people expected PERSONAL URL’s to be affixed to personal comments. With it being a Calvinist website, I simply googled Arminian websites and chose yours at random. Please accept my apology, as I did not intend to cause distress or confusion in that instance.

    I do, however, intend to cause distress in certain instances among the elitist and arrogant Calvinist brethren. I guess my website makes that obvious. My comment to you today, Ben, was totally sarcastic. My life revolves around sarcastic thoughts, so just take my comments with a grain of salt and know I attempt to look at the world light-heartedly. Oh, and to be honest, it’s only dealing with Calvinist idiots that I have trouble being humorous. Calvinists are the only people that can make me wanna commit murder. So I guess I can use some serious prayer in that regard. But I don’t mean you any harm.

    Thanks for a theologically solid and scripturally-sound website from which to draw truth.

    Yours in Christ,

    Marvin Merriweather
    Exodus 20:13

  11. Marvin,

    Thanks for the explanation and the apology. That helps a lot. It can be hard to decifer sarcasm on the internet, especially when you don’t know someone very well. For that reason, I try to avoid it myself (though I also tend to be a very sarcastic person).

    God Bless,
    Ben

  12. CALVINISM: “Just another way of saying I am special and your not”.

  13. Preston – I’m not sure that most Calvinists would agree with your statement.

  14. Preston, I agree with you. A bunch of smug elitists who practice 21st-century Pharisaism…deep intellect, much knowledge, no heart. Not all are this way, but enough are to justify concern on the parts of truth-honoring Arminians everywhere.

  15. Ahh yes I’ve bumped into Hyper-Calvinists before: “God-hating”, “unbelieving”, “unsaved” thse are some of the things I was called for being an Arminian. 🙂 One of the things I noticed though was their complete unwillingness and/or inability (their Total Inability? hehehe) to even present my views correctly. If you’re going to squish a theological view, wouldn’t you at least correctly define and present it? Apparently not.

  16. Oh, don’t forget “Satan worshipping”!

  17. Wow! I read this and feel like crying. He’s not only name- calling but calling the Brethren (whom Christ died for/HIS precious ELECT) unsaved and demon possessed and swine if they believe in free-will and saying they will be cast in to the lake of fire!!! There is absolutely not a drop of humility or brokenness in that man and I prayed that God would break him! How dare he speak this way? And he calls others self-righteous? He reminds me of the carnal disciples wanting to call fire down on the Samaritans. And he sounds like he’d just love nothing more. Paul spoke of his brothers in the flesh, the Jews, and was willing to be cursed for their sakes. THAT’S LOVE! If this man truly believes this group to be unsaved then he should pray, in fear mixed with mercy. But I get the feeling he’d just be smug and justify it away with his doctrine of how God doesn’t love all men (Esau I hated). This man knows not what spirit he is of. May God have mercy on him!

  18. I just have to say this (forgive me if it is the wrong place), when I was involved with Calvinist people, there was an extreme depersonalizing of Christs union with us. As though everything (even God himself) were so fixed and immovable that I felt that God didn’t really love me. I thought maybe I was thinking carnally about His love. When I talked of how, at age seventeen, Christ revealed Himself to me in my history class I was corrected more than once. “He illuminated the scriptures to you.”, “No, he CAME to me and REVEALED HIMSELF to me (which made me run after Him with everything in me.” , “He came by His providence and illuminated the scriptures to you.” I think sometimes the PERSON of Christ gets lost in all the terms and hermeneutics, and exegesis and philosophy and they forget that he lives, breathes, feels. He gave the disciples nicknames (Boanerges, sons of thunder) and John would lay on Him while he talked. This might be what leads to that hard, cold, hatefulness I see in some Calvinists. Maybe they need to spend less time reading Calvin and more time reading Song of Solomon.

    We can’t bear fruit by mere head knowledge. We need to know doctrine, this is very true and very important but if we lose connection with the source of love we are resounding gongs, clanging symbols.

    What really is this all about anyway?

    Just a thought.

  19. I was in on online “discussion” just last night with a young college aged Calvinist. He just came right out and said, “If you reject Calvinism, then you should renounce Christianity and become a pagan.” Wow! What arrogance.

  20. A neo-orthedox I tend to ruffle feathers anyways, but my personal feeling is that claiming anyone has “freewill” as if “freewill” was an actual thing is missing 50 years of philosophical development as much as someone who says you don’t have it. The construct is obsolete. I can say that I see no difference in roman and armenian thought of any significant value (save saints, etc). I also think its cleaver of you to take potshots at reformed theologians while using an extreme example of them to make your own ideas appear moderate. Your rhetoric is also turned that way, so I was wondering if you have a more academic post and not one where you try to prove your point by a rhetorical figure

  21. vonleon,

    Thanks for stopping by. You wrote,

    …my personal feeling is that claiming anyone has “freewill” as if “freewill” was an actual thing is missing 50 years of philosophical development as much as someone who says you don’t have it.

    Well, you are certainly entitled to your personal feelings on the subject.

    I can say that I see no difference in roman and armenian thought of any significant value (save saints, etc).

    I assume you meant “Arminian thought.” I’m not “armenian.”

    I also think its cleaver of you to take potshots at reformed theologians while using an extreme example of them to make your own ideas appear moderate.

    And on what basis do you make such a judgment about my intentions in writing this post? Surely not from the post itself. Did you read it? Here are a few things you may have missed,

    Thankfully, most Calvinists would never say (and hopefully never think) such things. Most Calvinists would consider this guy a hyper-Calvinist….

    Hopefully, more and more Calvinists will take a stand against such ungodly attitudes. I fear that if they do not they will eventually be swept up in this same sort of thinking.

    You write,

    Your rhetoric is also turned that way, so I was wondering if you have a more academic post and not one where you try to prove your point by a rhetorical figure.

    Can you elaborate on the “rhetorical figure” in this post so I know what exactly you are talking about before I respond.

    Thanks,
    Ben

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