Of course, when Calvinists speak of sovereignty, they are referencing their own bizarre definition of sovereignty which is synonymous with exhaustive decretal determinism. While Calvinists hold to this definition of sovereignty (what they often call “absolute” sovereignty), they have a hard time speaking and thinking in a consistent manner with all that view of sovereignty entails. Thankfully, they likewise have a hard time taking their views to its logical conclusion: making the God of holiness the author and originator of all sin and evil. This short post at SEA states the matter succinctly in light of recent comments by Calvinists concerning the death of Kim Jong-Il,
After the passing of Kim Jong-Il (our font makes it look like “Jong the Second,” but it is really the capital letter i followed by the lowercase letter L), Justin Taylor did a brief post highlighting how diabolical he was:
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2011/12/19/inside-kim-j…
It is simply baffling that Calvinists can decry the diabolical, heinous actions of Kim Jong-Il (and others like him), and yet they hold that God first conceived in his own divine heart every one of the man’s wicked actions, thought them up without any influence outside of himself, and unconditionally and irresistibly decreed them without any influence outside of himself, resulting in the man doing them all without any chance, power, or ability to do anything else. It’s madness I tell you! Madness!!
http://evangelicalarminians.org/?q=sea.Calvinism-and-the-Evil-of-Kim-Jong-Il
Filed under: determinism, predestination, secret decrees, sovereignty
Yes, Calvinists can not come to terms with the finality of what their view of God’s sovereignty means, thus the different levels of Calvinism. If man has a choice, then God is in the clear, if God gives us no choice, He is the one responsible for our actions, much the same way the man who trains an animal to attack another man is responsible morally for the actions of the animal. Below is a 4 part video I did in which I try to work out this issue exhaustively. I DO ramble a lot, but I think the fruit outweighs the rambling.
yet they hold that God first conceived in his own divine heart every one of the man’s wicked actions, thought them up without any influence outside of himself
What a fantastically concise, incisive statement of the logical implications of Calvinistic approaches to aseity and sovereignty.
kangaroodort,
I really do WISH that Calvinists would NOT take determinism to its logical conclusion (that God is the author of sin).
Sadly, I am seeing a trend in my context to not deny but to affirm that premise!
See the C&A debate group wall on Facebook (which is swamped by Calvinists by the way and the Arminians there could do with some help!): https://www.facebook.com/groups/2205096914/ There are several posts DEFENDING the notion that God is the author of sin, by the Calvinists.
Matt,
I typically do not allow people to post YouTube feeds directly in the comments thread. Could you leave a link to the video instead? I want people to be able to access it, I just don’t want it in the thread itself.
Thanks,
Ben
Hmmm. It looks like leaving a link automatically puts the feed in the combox. Is there anyway to leave a link without it creating the feed in the combox itself?
Yeah, sorry, the link automatically makes the player available on this site. If you need to erase it, that’s fine, just please tell the name of the video so people can search it. Thanks
Calvinists don’t all believe that God directs man’s evil-ness. We are already evil and wretched of ourselves….that He chooses to save any of us is completely merciful.
We have free will..in that when God offers regeneration to whomever HE wills, we, of course, accept it…it is irresistible because of His Holiness. Before He regenerates us…we are too selfish to ever truly want what God wants. We are not puppets. The chosen are saved because God says so and who are we to say otherwise? With the Holy Spirit *in* His chosen, a true desire for righteous and holy living is what they strive for.
I need to add…Kim Jong Il made his evil choices of his own….he was born sinful and chose to act out according to his sinful desires.